The middle line between soft & hard. Is there one?

[Sirch]

Wheres the line between softcore and hardcore? I suppose the hard line (no pun intended) would be when the penis enters the vagina, mouth or anis.

But I always thought there was a middle ground. How about a softcore model that inserts her fingers or a toy inside of her? Would that be considered softcore or hardcore? I would say hardcore.

Frankly I would even go as far as saying a female model that spreads her lips, could be categorized something other than softcore. When I think of softcore I think of natural nude photography, like one would find in PB.

If there isn't a "middle" categorization should there be?

[stoneageman]

Like so many terms, including pornography and glamour, they mean different things to different people. Within the adult industry about 8 years ago there were various 'shorthand' terms in common use to cover such things as nude but not showing the genitalia, open leg, holding open the vagina, and inserting fingers or dildos. Then with the rise of the internet model, many of these changed and were replaced by expressions like 'implied nude', Pl@yboy style and Femjoy style which are equally vague.
If you had asked me back in around 2003 I would have said hard involved any kind of insertion into the vagina, anus or mouth as far as boy/girl work was concerned, and insertion into the anus and vagina as far as girl/girl stuff was concerned.
The problem is compounded by different legal standards around the world. For example in the UK the line between hard and soft might be said to mirror that of the 18 and R18 BBFC classifications: "Sex works containing only material which may be simulated are generally passed ‘18’. Sex works containing clear images of real sex, strong fetish material, sexually explicit animated images, or other very strong sexual images will be confined to the ‘R18’ category." Of course this doesn't apply elsewhere in Europe or the USA, so really it doesn't fully answer your question

[Sirch]

Thanks for the reply. It was a very interesting read and the kind of feedback I was looking for.

You are correct that words mean different things to different ppl. Here in the US, many would consider PB pornography. While the definition in general refers to "real sex acts".

For example, simulated sex in a mainstream Hollywood film is generally not considered pornography. But to confuse the situation even more, simulated sex in a softcore sex film would probably be labeled pornography.

I always felt there should be a label for something that falls in-between nude photography like PB and pornography. It makes it difficult to label some models and actresses. But that's just a personal opinion.

[cuzzyman927]

I have always believed the most obvious and simplified difference and distinction between hardcore and softcore is that hardcore shows the sex/oral acts explicitly with no holds barred and nothing left to the imagination, and in softcore, the camera is usually strategically placed so as not to capture any explicitness, and you must use and rely upon your imagination and good sense as to what is occurring, and of course no visible cum shots.

I have seen some strong R-rated movies which were borderline to being softcore. In the oral scenes the woman's head is shown bobbing up and down without the penis being in the shot, and the guy going down on the woman without showing his tongue actually entering her vagina.
In the sex scenes you typically see the man thrusting back and forth or his ass going up and down, or the woman mounting him and sitting on his penis, all of which without showing the actual penis.
And when it comes time for ejaculation the man will moan and groan but actual ejaculation is not shown.

[magnut]

Originally Posted by stoneageman

The problem is compounded by different legal standards around the world. For example in the UK the line between hard and soft might be said to mirror that of the 18 and R18 BBFC classifications: "Sex works containing only material which may be simulated are generally passed ‘18’. Sex works containing clear images of real sex, strong fetish material, sexually explicit animated images, or other very strong sexual images will be confined to the ‘R18’ category." Of course this doesn't apply elsewhere in Europe or the USA, so really it doesn't fully answer your question

Just curious, any idea when BBFC started certificating? I remember a 60s song which made a reference to Certificate X, so that means it goes back aways.

[stoneageman]

Originally Posted by magnut

Just curious, any idea when BBFC started certificating? I remember a 60s song which made a reference to Certificate X, so that means it goes back aways.

According to Wikipedia: "The BBFC was established in 1912 as the British Board of Film Censors by the film industry (who would rather manage their own censorship than have national or local government do it for them). Its legal basis was the Cinematograph Act 1909, which required cinemas to have licenses from local authorities."

[neil w]

Originally Posted by magnut

I remember a 60s song which made a reference to Certificate X

The song was Lady Godiva by Peter and Gordon:

She found fame
and made her name
A Hollywood director came into town

And said to her (hey!),
How'd you like to be a star?
You're a girl who could go far
'specially dressed the way you are

She smiled at him
and gave her pretty head a shake
That was Lady G's mistake

He directs Certificate X
and people now are craning their necks
to see her

The X certificate disappeared in the UK when the certification system was overhauled in 1982.

[mythmaker18]

Originally Posted by n0rmalboy

I think there's a "midcore". Like all those Jo Guest and Adele Stephens pics where they've got a hard dick in each hand. It might not be hardcore, but it sure as heck ain't soft.

Yeah, if you want to think of the boy/girl Hustler-style layouts (circa 1980s) as being "in-between", I can see that. No insertions, but hand/genital contact between the sexes, and erections, none of which would be acceptable in an R-rated movie.